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楼主: icefcold

[RP讨论] 如何在邪恶占主导的世界背景下扮演圣武士?

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发表于 2008-9-29 20:35:52 | 显示全部楼层
这是LG这个双阵营的问题。
对同一个判断,不可能同时有两个最高原则,对于LG的Pal,是L>G,还是G>L,就是需要确定的问题。
L和G可以同时存在,但不可能同为最高原则,那个更高,是Pal自己的选择。
对于这个例子而言。神召Pal出现,显然不可能是让Pal白白送死,
如果你认为,这时是神需要有人用自己的牺牲来号召和鼓舞大家,那么就站出来死吧,这是神的意志。
如果你认为,时机不成熟,神更需要有人去做地下工作,那么就做地下工作吧,这也是神的需要,培罗也有培罗影卫吗。
4e里的LG,应该是L>G了。但在3版里,我个人认为善恶之争是大于L和C的。本例当中,黑暗仍然很强大,应当还是地下工作好吧。(不过秉承神的意志死了之后被神复活继续冒险似乎也不错[s:7] )
发表于 2008-9-29 21:07:52 | 显示全部楼层
这种问题找你的DM商量就好,你的扮演是否合格,怎么做算是违背了行为准则,其他人说的都不算,没有一个定死的规则,要看各个DM的理解。
发表于 2008-10-6 15:55:36 | 显示全部楼层
好长的讨论的说[y:3] ,按纯奇幻的背景来说pal可以分为世俗pal和神选pal,大多数的pal全是世俗pal,把太多的精力用在处理世俗事务上,其实大多的事交给管理此事的人去管就行了。世俗的争论永远没有尽头,所以还是省点力气吧
    pal的剑不是用来对付人的,是用来对付恶魔的。所以大多数的时候pal都是无所事事的小民,只有在某个时刻被神招唤,才行其事,做完就立刻消失(做好事不留名)。所以pal的一生不会伴随着辉煌与掌声。
在邪恶的世界里,pal估计就是销声匿迹,隐世避俗(惹不起还躲不起吗)。
   其实关键还是看个人的追求,是辉煌的人生,是幸福的生活,又或者是刺激的冒险,好听的名声等等,其实pal一生该追求的是神的旨意
发表于 2008-10-6 16:56:27 | 显示全部楼层
我觉得PAL对自己阵营的理解应该参照所信仰的神祇的教义来看,即使同为LG,不同神祇的教义还是千差万别的,有些可能更加强硬,有些大概会相对温和和更富有手腕,这个就不是绝对的了……拿FR来说,Helm和伊尔玛特的教义看起来就明显不同,即使两个都是LG但是分别信仰两位神祇的PAL,遇到同样一件事情:敌人正在逃跑,而身边的盟友受伤濒死倒地,这种情况做法完全不同,前者会放下倒地的盟友不顾而追击敌人,后者则是放弃追击低下身治疗自己的朋友……因此,对于楼主的问题,理解和做法也不是绝对的……如果这个是楼主的自设世界,那不妨将那些善良神祇的教义列出来看看再议,这样大概会比较妥当
 楼主| 发表于 2008-10-6 17:05:25 | 显示全部楼层
You climb to the mountains surveying the earth, you suspend from the heavens the circle of the lands.

You care for all the peoples of the lands, and everything is entrusted to you.

Whatever has breath you shepherd without exception, you are their keeper in upper and lower regions.

Regularly and without cease you traverse the heavens, every day you pass over the broad earth.

Shepherd of that beneath, keeper of that above, you, Rel, direct, you are the light of everything.

You never fail to cross the wide expanse of sea, the depth of which we know not.

Rel, your glare reaches down to the abyss so that monsters of the deep behold your light.

Among all there is none who toils but you, none who is supreme like you in the whole pantheon of gods.

At your rising the gods of the land assemble, your fierce glare covers the land.

Of all the lands of varied speech, you know their plans, you scan their way.

The whole of mankind bows to you, Rel, the universe longs for your light.

He will be caught in a copper trap that he did not foresee.

You destroy the horns of a scheming villain, a zealous traitor his foundations are undermined.

You give the unscrupulous judge experience of fetters, him who accepts a present and yet lets justice miscarry you make bear his punishment.

As for him who declines a present but nevertheless takes the part of the weak, It is pleasing to Rel, and he will prolong his life.

The progeny of evil-doers will fail.

Those whose mouth says 'No'-their case is before you.

In a moment you discern what they say;
You hear and examine them; you determine the lawsuit of the wronged. Every single person is entrusted to your hands; You manage their omens; that which is perplexing you make plain.

You observe, Rel, prayer, supplication, and benediction,
Obeisance, kneeling, ritual murmurs, and prostration.

The feeble man calls you from the hollow of his mouth, the humble, the weak, the afflicted, the poor, she whose son is captive constantly and unceasingly confronts you.

He whose family is remote, whose city is distant, the shepherd amid the terror of the steppe confronts you, the herdsman in warfare, the keeper of sheep among enemies.

Rel, there confronts you the caravan, those journeying in fear, the travelling merchant, the agent who is carrying capital.

Rel, there confronts you the fisherman with his net, the hunter, the bowman who drives the game, with his bird net the fowler confronts You.
The prowling thief, the enemy of Rel, the marauder along the tracks of the steppe confronts you.

The roving dead, the vagrant soul, they confront you, Rel, and you hear all.

You do not obstruct those that confront you.

For my sake, Rel, do not curse them! Enlighten them!

You grant revelations, Rel, to the families of men, your harsh face and fierce light you give to them.

The heavens are not enough as the vessel into which you gaze, the sum of the lands is inadequate as a seer's bowl.

You deliver people surrounded by mighty waves, In return you receive their pure, clear libations.

They in their reverence laud the mention of you, and worship your majesty for ever.

Which are the mountains not clothed with your beams?

Which are the regions not warmed by the brightness of your light?

Brightener of gloom, Illuminator of darkness, Dispeller of evil, Teacher of the broad earth. One Sun.

此为盲目光芒之神REL的信条,突然发现能看懂和能翻译还是有相当的距离……

当然,本贴的讨论远不必只局限于DASARIA这个MOD的背景……
发表于 2008-10-21 15:09:16 | 显示全部楼层
其实谎言这东西。是可以避免不去说的。就像玩文字游戏,你可以曲解它的意思。

我觉得圣武士不意味着都是傻瓜,就好像邪恶是一种无知的短视一样。
仔细看下过去的一些童话寓言故事都是善良靠机智战胜邪恶的。(如果你觉得那些机智很蠢,那你不就和那种说‘要是我是石器时代的人一定是个伟大科学家’的那种白人了?)
发表于 2008-10-21 16:23:20 | 显示全部楼层
这个贴子大部分发言都还挺有价值,但是某自称懒惰的版主掺和进来后便扭曲了……

实际上,按照我的理解,人类在现实中并没有出现过任何一个职业有与PAL类似的站位(如果勉强要说,我只能说出红十字)。圣武士乃是把自己奉献给秩序和善良这种抽象存在的理想主义者,只可能存在于善恶分明的奇幻世界中,所以我觉得与其结合现实来讨论,不如用一些戏剧或写作上角色塑造的方式来讨论比较好。

比如说在邪恶占主导的背景下,一个坚持善良之道又遵守良善的圣武士可以做什么?首先他可以反抗,然后可能会就义,那么这个圣武士必然应该有一种悲剧英雄的气概,可能还有嫉恶如仇的真性。而一个比较坚忍,克制,目光长远的圣武士则可能把自己光荣牺牲的欲望先压抑起来,将自己的使命定为保护尽量多的善良者。游走于堕落和崇高边界的圣武士可能会用极端的方式来表示自己的抵抗,例如踢开恶棍的们与其单挑或者混入邪恶内部将其瓦解。将秩序放在善良前的圣武士可能会试图改变不正当的法律,将善良摆在前头的或许更希望找一个能救出最多人的方法。

一切全看这个圣武士在“圣武士”这个职业之外是怎么样一个人,这其实是玩家和DM所需要考虑的问题。
发表于 2008-10-22 06:57:24 | 显示全部楼层
其实善良书,光耀勇者这几本善良面的书上都提到一个很重要的一点.善良是慈悲,宽容,而秩序是保护善良.这是它们所鼓励的行为.所以才会出现赎罪术等等的法术等的设计. 比如说,当一个圣武士面对的是一对相爱而逃出深渊的魅魔情侣,他是真的应该毫不考虑的恶即斩么?当他面对一个被正义之军摧毁的兽人部落或者卓尔城市的废墟中, 一个少年哭泣着提着大人留下的武器恐惧地看着这些他们眼中的"侵略者"的时候,他真的应该不需要考虑就给那个孩子"最后的慈悲"么.

圣武士之路意味着永远的道德思索和自我折磨磨练.走上这路就必须有次觉悟
发表于 2008-10-22 07:38:51 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 暗流 于 2008-9-27 14:17 发表


咔咔,其实你被俺误导了,你应该一开始就避免陷入不利的境地:
1、当3个人拔出武器向你冲来的情况下你完全可以先撤退嘛,然后在有机会的情况下就可以讲解目标犯下的罪行,山民们虽然有保护亲戚的传统,但是对杀 ...

这个例子,我想可以用现实当中的一个事情对比
本拉登因为恐怖活动被国际社会追捕,于是他找到阿富汗的塔利班寻求庇护,又因为塔利班与拉登在反苏战争有战斗友谊,于是收留了他。另一方面,美国是塔利班真正的幕后老板,他要打击拉登,就必须要与自己培养的组织发生战争,怎么办?
 楼主| 发表于 2008-10-22 11:42:31 | 显示全部楼层
LS你的例子和守序善良毫无关系,不明白如何能类比得起来

至于怎么办,美国911之后的对外政策已经告诉你了
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